This is part of The Pile, a partial archive of some open source mailing lists and newsgroups.
From: J MacCraw <jmaccraw@warpmedia.net> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 01:18:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Which motherboard? At 15:58 4/22/1999 +0100, Red Hat List Account Wrote: > >Supermicro P6DBE (135 UK-POUNDS) >Gigabyte GA-6BXD (104 UKP) > >Both are dual-440BX. > >my second dilemma is the graphics card. i dont play games much >so its probably not worth a 3D or 16MB number. >current options are: > >ATI Expert98 (32 UKP) >Diamond Speedstar (28 UKP) >Matrox Millenium G200+ (SDRAM) (47 UKP) > >all are 8MB-AGP. Don't waste your time with anything other than Asus, Abit, or Aopen. Supermicro is real junk, gigaByte is not far behind; Though I do know a few (of the less picky users) that have GigaByte or Shuttle and like it. Overall I hear about or have had myself trouble with: Soyo, Tyan, SuperMicro, Shuttle, GigaByte, etc... Come over to http://www.hardwaregroup.org or http://www.hardwaregroup.com and join OUR list for hardware before you make that fatal investment in junk. On the video front: Skip ATI & Diamond, go right for the G200. If you need better gaming video later, add a V2/3 or TNT2. J MacCraw http://www.warpmedia.net === Subject: Re: [OT] New machine specs From: Justin Oelgoetz <oelgoetz.1@osu.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:30:18 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 12 Jul 1999, Duncan Hill wrote: > I've been eying CPUs out on pricewatch, contemplating building myself > a dual CPU box. I'm noticing that PPro 200s are the same price as > Celeron 300As. Anyone got any recommendations? I intend to go dual > if I can, and gaming isn't much of a priority (but I have a hunch that > my MP3 encoding uses MMX and will be faster on the Celeron). It'll be > the replacement for my current Linux box which is a P55C-200. > > Also, what would be recommended in terms of Mboard and RAM for the > recommended config? > > I'll be using the box mainly for compiling and number crunching > (SETI/RC5). If I were to buy a dual system tomorrow, I would definitely go w/ a socket 1 system (PII/III) or a XEON based system if I had the $$$. I would further avoid Celerons as Multi-processor processors. Celerons run w/ an external bus speed of 66MHz, PII/PII can be either 66MHz, or 100MHz, an important difference. As for Motherboards, I have a Tyan that works wonderfully. If one wanted to get into multiprocessors cheaply, I would recommend getting a multiprocessor board, and only installing one processor, and then waiting for the new PIII's to come down. I would avoid PPro's because, there is not a real good upgrade path. With socket 1, one could get a dual PII system, and later upgrade to faster dual PIII's. Celeron's present a similar problem. There is "patch" that would allow Celeron's to go multiprocessor w/ some re-wiring, but it looks like a real pain. I'm weary of even commercial versions, and if you do go that way, be sure of your warranty and that you have one on the CPU. Furthermore any Multimedia stuff will be better on the later processors. I hope this is of help. Oh and, I think I may have replied to this message twice, If I did, please accept my apologies for the wasted bandwidth. === Subject: Re: [OT] New machine specs From: Christopher Fisk <chrisf@mhonline.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:39:10 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 12 Jul 1999, Justin Oelgoetz wrote: >I'm replying on the list because I think the answer may be useful to >others. > >If I were to buy a dual system tomorrow, I would definitely go w/ a socket >1 system (PII/III) or a XEON based system if I had the $$$. I would >further avoid Celerons as Multi-processor processors. Celerons run w/ an >external bus speed of 66MHz, PII/PII can be either 66MHz, or 100MHz, an >important difference. As for Motherboards, I have a Tyan that works >wonderfully. As far as getting the best performance out of a system I would definitely recommend getting a pair of ppga celeron 466's and MSI Slotkets (Which convert socket 370 pinout to slot1) and start that way. There is no reason right now not to do this as the difference between 66mhz and 100mhz bus is negligible. On a side note Celeron 300a's overclock beautifully to 464mhz about 90% of the time so that might be an option as well. === Subject: Re: [OT] New machine specs From: Tim Pickering <tim@astro.rug.nl> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:00:27 +0200 it should also be noted that abit has a new dual socket 370 board out called the BP6. if you want a dual system on the cheap, that's the way to go whether or not you'll OC your celeries. you can get two 433 PPGA chips for less than one P-II or PII 450. if you can find 300a's, they sound like the best bet. they seem to reliably go to 450 MHz which means a 100 MHz bus instead of 66. the only drawback then w.r.t. the P-II's and III's is the smaller on-board cache which is somewhat offset by the fact that the celery cache runs at full CPU speed instead of half. OTOH, P-II 400's are getting cheap enough that it's probably worth the extra $$$'s to get a couple of those and a good dual slot 1 board. that's probably what i would do if building a new system from scratch. === Subject: Re: PCs From: Bill Carlson <wcarlson@vh.org> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:00:25 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Tim Hockin wrote: > > Does anyone know of a PC that is rack mountable and only 1 rack unit high > > (1.75")?? Let me know! Thanks! > > The Cobalt RaQ systems are 1 RU, but are not exactly what you'd call a > general purpose PC. Mips processor. It is Linux, too! > Gah! Stay away from the Cobalt products, unless you like non-open hardware. http://www.penguincomputing.com http://www.tesys.com/rackmount/index.html === From: Hugo [mailto:Hugo@www.nashville-now.com] Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 5:56 PM Subject: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 Following the excellent "Cheap /Linux/ Box" guide, I've come up with the following list of parts, prices and suppliers. $800 (inc. tax) will buy:- - AMD K6-2/450 - 64Mb SDRAM - 8.4Gb HDD - SoundBlaster 32 PnP - 56k h/w modem - 4Mb ATI Xpert98 AGP-2x (DVD support) - Hitachi 2x DVD drive - mouse & keyboard - 15" monitor - battery backup (in case the 110V supply wobbles or fails) ATX case 38 Axion Tech modem 45 Axion Tech (AOpen FM56-ITU/2) CPU + m/board 140 Tuf Shop (FIC PA-2013; AMD K6-II 450) 3.5" FDD 15 Comp Geeks (205-3235) 15" monitor 57 Comp Geeks (205-2215) HDD (8.4Gb) 93 Comp Geeks (205-4084) SB 32 PnP 22 Comp Geeks (205-3601) VGA card 48 PC Cost (Xpert98 AGP-2x) 64Mb SDRAM 110 PC Cost (ECC, 8x72, 3.3v) 3-button mouse 10 PC Cost (PS/2) keyboard 10 PC Cost Hitachi DVD (2x) 45 Computers Lane battery backup 46 "c-source" --- 679 S&H 60 (approx) --- 739 Tax 61 --- TOTAL 800 Web sites:- http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~comech/tools/CheapBox.html http://www.pricewatch.com http://www.axion-tech.com http://www.tufshop.com http://www.compgeeks.com http://www.pccost.com http://www.computerslane.com http://www.c-source.com All comments are appreciated. I'll order the parts in a week or two, ceteris paribus. === Subject: RE: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Chris Morton <ChrisM@systemcareinc.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:19:06 -0500 I'd put a bit more money into the hard drive. Maxtor 20gig. drives are ridiculously cheap these days. If I'm not mistaken, a 27gig. Maxtor goes for less than a 540*meg.* Western Digital went for five or six years ago. You can NEVER have too much disk space. === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: "Bruce Bauer" <bruce@specialdevices.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:29:02 -0700 Here is a copy of what I sent to the Cheap /Linux/ Box page's owner: -start of quote- I have just finished reading your web page tittled: The Cheap /Linux/ Box I find myself agreeing with everrything except motherboard selection guidelines. Please check out this web page: http://www.motherboards.org/subpages/chipset-08.html To this page I add the following comments: The quality of components on these "$69 motherboards" can leave much to be desired. Specifically, the type of capacitors used for noise suppression. I have personally witnessed 5 of these type motherboards become unstable after 12 - 18 months of operation due to excessive noise caused by dried out capacitors. Convenienly after the one year warantee expired. Please consider adding www.motherboards.org to your list of links. -end of quote- Also, be sure the Motherboard that you select will support ECC SDRAM or you will be wasting money. === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Michael George <george@mintcity.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:03:20 -0500 > Following the excellent "Cheap /Linux/ Box" guide, I've come up with the > following list of parts, prices and suppliers. $800 (inc. tax) will > buy:- > > - AMD K6-2/450 > - 64Mb SDRAM > - 8.4Gb HDD > - SoundBlaster 32 PnP > - 56k h/w modem > - 4Mb ATI Xpert98 AGP-2x (DVD support) > - Hitachi 2x DVD drive > - mouse & keyboard > - 15" monitor > - battery backup (in case the 110V supply wobbles or fails) > > > ATX case 38 Axion Tech > modem 45 Axion Tech (AOpen FM56-ITU/2) > CPU + m/board 140 Tuf Shop (FIC PA-2013; AMD K6-II 450) > 3.5" FDD 15 Comp Geeks (205-3235) > 15" monitor 57 Comp Geeks (205-2215) I'd be concerned about this monitor. I'm not sure if Comp Geeks recondition used stuff or what gets the price so low, but I generally go for decent monitors. I require 17" which will do 1280x1024 at 60MHz or better. If you don't like to sit in front of it, what's inside is moot, IMO. > HDD (8.4Gb) 93 Comp Geeks (205-4084) > SB 32 PnP 22 Comp Geeks (205-3601) > VGA card 48 PC Cost (Xpert98 AGP-2x) > 64Mb SDRAM 110 PC Cost (ECC, 8x72, 3.3v) > 3-button mouse 10 PC Cost (PS/2) > keyboard 10 PC Cost I love the bent and contoured keyboards. YMMV. > Hitachi DVD (2x) 45 Computers Lane > battery backup 46 "c-source" > --- > 679 > S&H 60 (approx) > --- > 739 > Tax 61 > --- > TOTAL 800 > > > Web sites:- > > http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~comech/tools/CheapBox.html > http://www.pricewatch.com > http://www.axion-tech.com > http://www.tufshop.com > http://www.compgeeks.com > http://www.pccost.com > http://www.computerslane.com > http://www.c-source.com === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Benjamin Jackson <zaphod@esgeroth.org> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:20:04 -0500 (EST) 60 MEGAHertz!? Now my friends THAT is a update rate! :) === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Kurt Brust <cltkbrust@carolina.rr.com> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:12:54 -0500 you can goto www.buypogo.com and get the below for only $599, pre installed with RED HAT 6.1! Processor * 400MHz, * 66MHz system bus Memory * 64MB, * Upgradable to 768MB PC100 SDRAM * 3 dimm slots Storage 8.4 GB running at 5400 RPM * Built-in 40X CD-ROM Drive * 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive Audio Support * Preinstalled 32-bit Soundblaster sound card * 60W with Subwoofer speakers Connectivity * 2 USB Ports * PS/2 Keyboard connector * PS/2 Mouse connector Keyboard and Mouse * Keyboard with Ergonomic Wrist Rest * Logitech 3-button mouse Network 10/100 base-t nic card Modem 56k Modem === Subject: RE: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: David Krings <RamonS@gmx.net> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 14:25:11 +0100 Hi ! Working with hardware setups on a daily basis i warn everyone to purchase a Maxtor drive, it is really not worth the low price. If i had problems with a harddrive in the past years it was because it came from Maxtor. So if you want more disk space, get it from a better company - and you will get some customer support, too. Dunno why, but Maxtor sucks in any way (excuse my german ;) ). === Subject: RE: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Ward William E PHDN <wardwe@nswcphdn.navy.mil> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:09:22 -0500 Not to start a Holy Jihad or anything here but.... I've had Maxtor drives on and off (mostly on, and by preference the last few years) since my fourth HD, way back in 1990 (a 212 MB drive, HUGE back then... but all my drives after the 1st were big for the time). The 212 finally gave up the ghost when I was doing a low level this past summer and had a power out half way through... I think it would still work (BIOS still finds it!) but I can't get FDISK or Disk Druid to spot low level it. At any rate, that's the FIRST Maxtor drive I've lost. Here's a run down, by drive and manufacturer. Seagate 20 MB 1989 (MFM) - Power Spike killed it in 1990. Seagate 80 MB 1889 (MFM) - " " " " " " Connor 100 MB 1990 (first IDE) - Died 1996 after abuse by my nephew. Came in my old 386/33 when purchased. WD 30 MB 1990? (MFM) - Don't remember exact year, but 1989-91 time frame. Died within 6 months, got my money back. Maxtor 212 MB 1990 (IDE) - Died last summer as I mentioned. Seagate 120 MB 1990 (RLL) - Replacement for 20 and 80 in an XT. Still worked through 1998, not used since then, should still work. WD 100 MB 1992 (IDE) - Died 1995, unknown reasons (just died). Maxtor 540 MB 1992 (IDE) - Still working, in use in my kids machine until 2 months ago. Maxtor 110 MB 1992 * (IDE) - This drive was given to me. Works great in my dad's machine. Connor 100 MB 1993 * (IDE) - Kind of flaky, still working though. In dad's machine. Fuji 205 MB 1993 * (IDE) - Died 1995ish. Big disappointment. Maxtor 200 MB 1994 * (IDE) - Given to me in 1998, still working in dad's machine. Maxtor 200 MB 1994 * (IDE) - " " " " 1997, " " " " " Connor 1.2 GB 1994 * (IDE) - " " " " 1997. Died 1997. Never was reliable (not even to original owner). Power problems. Seagate 1.0 GB 1994 * (IDE) - " " " " 1998. DOA (worked when pulled, never worked again). Maxtor 850 MB 1994 (IDE) - My wife's HD when I met her. Working in Kid's machine. Maxtor 1.6 GB 1994 (IDE) - My Big Drive for a good long time. Removed from my machine two months ago (added in a CDRW instead). Working in kid's machine now. Maxtor 1.6 GB 1995 (IDE) - Still in use in my wife's machine. WD 6.2 GB 1997 (IDE) -Working in wife's machine. Maxtor 6.4 GB 1997 (IDE) - In my machine Maxtor 9.6 GB 1998 (IDE) - Wife's machine, works great. Maxtor 13.2 GB 1999 (IDE) - In my machine. Fuji 3.6 GB 1999 (IDE) - Refurb drive picked up cheap for kids machine at same time I picked up my CDRW. Works fine, but slow as molasses. Don't remember when manufactured. Somehow, I'm still missing two drives off the list, but I don't remember where or when I picked those up (yes, I DO have a lot of drives...) I believe both are dead, but haven't tested that fact. (300 MB and 200 MB, one Fuji, one Connor). Out of the drives that are being used today, only the refurbed 3.6 GB Fuji, the 6.2 GB WD, and the flaky 100 MB Connor are not Maxtor. So I've had a lot of luck with Maxtors..... Bill Ward === Subject: RE: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Chris Morton <ChrisM@systemcareinc.com> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:33:48 -0500 Achtung Herr Krings! (Or should that be "Kroenigen"?) : ) I've got two Maxtors, which have given me no problems. Constrast this with the current recall order on Western Digitals, and the two WD 2.1Gig.s that crashed semi-simultaneously on me. My sources tell me that there aren't any really good IDE drives anymore, except maybe IBM, so it's going to be a crapshoot no matter what. === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: "Gene Aulich" <gaulich@softcom.net> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:02:24 -0800 I have one machine with 4 maxtor drives and 2 others with 2 each. My son has 2 in his machine and my daughter has 2. I will not use any drive but Maxtor. I have had problems with WD, Seagate and Quantum. === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Chris Morton <cmorton@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:51:29 -0800 (PST) At Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:02:24 -0800, you wrote >I have one machine with 4 maxtor drives and 2 others with 2 each. My son has >2 in his machine and my daughter has 2. I will not use any drive but Maxtor. >I have had problems with WD, Seagate and Quantum. I haven't had many problems with Western Digital, but the one's I've had have been catastrophic. _Two_ of them crashed Egypt-Air style a few years ago, for no obvious reason. I don't know if the drives killed the MB or vice versa, but I ended up replacing all three. There's a currently recall on a variety of WD drives. Let's just say I'm reluctant to buy WD these days. I buy IBM at work, and Maxtor for home. === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: David Krings <RamonS@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:26:44 +0100 Hi again ! Seems to be interesting to many people, i myself had for my private puters in the last years 2x 1.2 GB Maxtor drives, both crashed heavily within a year (and of them is the one Maxtor says i never sent in). Best shot was killing a Maxtor drive by plugging in the IDE cable (without a notch though) upside down, i know i shouldn't do that, but any other drive didn't go on strike after sth like that. Now i have an IBM 6.4 GB DHAE that runs smoothly since the first spin-off and a 3.2 GB Fujitsu together with an old 1.2 GB Connor which is about 6 years old now. Inbetween i had also Seagate and WD and was happy with both brands / types. But in case of purchasing another drive i'd only go for IBM, not the cheapest, but fast and reliable IMHO. Hmmm, seems as IBM won by points, hehe. Greez Dave === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: David Krings <RamonS@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:26:29 +0100 Hi, had defenitely other experience, send a broken harddrive in within guarantee time with full RMA, never got it back, Maxtor says i never sent it, other drives which did return were still broken, i always have to call them several times to get them moving - maybe because there is officially no customer support center in germany at all, guess i move to the carribean. ;) Greez Dave === Subject: Re: [OT] build a Linux box for $800 From: Fallout <fallout@deltanet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:37:02 -0800 (PST) On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, David Krings wrote: > another drive i'd only go for IBM, not the cheapest, but fast and reliable > IMHO. I agree. I have a IBM 6.4GB and an IBM10.1GB drive, they both function perfectly, suprisingly quietly, and very reliably. IBM makes a damn good hard drive, imo. === Subject: RE: [OT] Hard Drives (Maxtor in particular, but others too). From: Ward William E PHDN <wardwe@nswcphdn.navy.mil> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:18:04 -0500 Gene Aulich [mailto:gaulich@softcom.net] wrote: > I have one machine with 4 maxtor drives and 2 others with > 2 each. My son has 2 in his machine and my daughter has > 2. I will not use any drive but Maxtor. I have had > problems with WD, Seagate and Quantum. Ya know, I've been thinking about the message the original poster against Maxtor drives wrote... he also mentioned that he had had a lot of problems with getting support for Maxtor. I don't know what it's like in Germany (where he was posting from) but all I have to do is call a Toll-Free number here in the US and get automated support for every drive ever made by Maxtor... forget your jumper settings? Call the line, punch in the model number, and voila, it'll tell you everything. Far from being poor support, I've found they give excellent support for the things I need most. Now, I find the Max-Blaster software near useless... but that's my experience with it. YMMV, of course. I'm curious as to the problems that he's had with Maxtor in the past, and peoples experiences with other Hard Drive manufacturers, both in reliability and in support. I know, it's not completely on-topic... but Hard Drives for the machines are important (one of the four cornerstones of a machine... CPU, memory, Video card and Hard Drives). Anyone else want to chime in with their experiences with Maxtor, Fuji, Seagate, Connor, IBM and WD? Mine are Excellent, Poor, Very Good, Fair-good, No basis to judge, and Mixed (very poor and good). David, care to tell us your experiences with Maxtors that left such a bad taste in your mouth? === Subject: RE: [OT] Hard Drives (Maxtor in particular, but others too). From: "George Lenzer" <rh_list@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:27:09 EST It's been my experience that Maxtor is THE best IDE drive manufacturer out there. The drives are inexpensive, performa well and durable. The WORST (IMNSHO) is Western Digital. I have had to return every WD drive I have ever owned. And, one time when I got a replacement drive, I had to send it back after it started smoking in my machine. I also had an IBM Deskstar which was REALLY fast, but it died after about two months of use and I lost all of my data. When I went to exchange the drive, I was told that IBM had phased out that model and wasn't doing any replacements. I wound up exchanging it for a slightly slower (but durable) Maxtor drive. The few Fuji drives I've had have all developed bad physical sectors within a year of ownership. Of course, this is just my experience, but I though it may provide some insight... === Subject: RE: [OT] Hard Drives (Maxtor in particular, but others too). From: "Bruce Bauer" <bruce@specialdevices.com> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:44:26 -0700 My experience: I worked telephone tech support for two different mail order computer companies. The first one sold junk and is now out of business. The second one sold only quality components and in fact rejected 95% of the hardware sent to it for evaluation. I was part of the eval team as the support phone lines didn't ring too often. For four years I worked for a computer rental company. When I started there, a large affordable drive was 420MB. When I quit a large affordable drive was 2GB. During the last two years there I was in charge of repairs. This means I got to deal with Seagate, Fujitsu, Samsung, Quantum, Western Digital, Conner, and probably others. Now I work as a Network Administrator with 200+ nodes to support. Seagate was the most infuriating to deal with. If the drive serial number indicated that the drive was sold as part of a system, they would not replace it, period. You had to go through the OEM of the system. As we bought systems all over the country and often moved drives between systems, there are some drives that I never got replaced. Fujitsu was and is the easiest to deal with. They have a no-questions-asked replacement policy. You tell them the serial number of the defective drive and they replace it. Maxtor had the most compatibility problems. If you called Maxtor tech support they would tell you which undocumented jumpers to change on their drives to make them compatible. Failure rates: Maxtor: near 100% failed WD: near 100% failed Quantum: 70% failed Samsung: 50% failed Seagate: 20% failed except the ST1080A 100% failed Fujitsu: 2% failed The Western Digital drives that we had at permanent locations did not fail. Some of the really old 40MB and 80MB IDE drives never failed. These figures are approximate from memory as I no longer have the documentation to support them. We had 200 - 300 of each of these brands of drives. They were used in the harshest environment I can think of: 1. Rental computers get shipped all over the country and take a beating. 2. Large, short-term rental orders were filled by packing 100+ computers in the back of a truck, often with no padding, and driving them to and from the site. 3. The customers don't care if they damage the hardware. This rental company no longer exists. They decided to call it quits when the Pentium II's came out as they did not want to invest in another 1000 computers. So they sold their customer list to another rental company and sold off all their inventory. ===