network_bandwidth_checks

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Subject: [OT] network bandwidth
From: Alan Mead <adm@ipat.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:11:31 -0500

Sorry for an off-topic post about network bandwidth...  Everything seems 
slow lately and I want to make sure I understand some issues.  Below is a 
traceroute and ping to Yahoo.  Usually, Yahoo is about 200 to 300 ms 
distant.  Today (right now) it appears to be about 10 times that 
distant.  I tried other hosts and had similar results (although 
occasionally the time would drop for a second or two and then rise again).

It seems like there are big jumps in the latencies going from hop 3 to 4 
and 4 to 5 and again in the 8,9,10 area then 11 looks pretty fast, 12-13 
slow, then Yahoo itself looks about normal.

So:  (1) I obviously don't fully understand traceroute; These are round 
trips between me and that node, right?  So how can latencies on successive 
hops get bigger and smaller?  Is this a sign of wildly unstable network 
latencies?  Or are there "slow hops" and "fast hops"?  Or something 
else?  (2) Similarly, how could latencies to hop 12 be so large and then to 
Yahoo itself so small?  Why are the latencies on hop 14 so different from 
those of the subsequent ping?

Part 2:  It takes me about 29 minutes to transfer some 345 megabyte files 
from one host to another over our LAN using scp.  So I'm getting about 1.6 
Mb throughput, right?  It's a 10Mb hubbed segment so I'm getting about 32% 
of the realistic maximum, right?  We are going to replace the hub with a 
100Mb switch so I'm expecting transfers to be 6000% faster soon.

Part 3:  I used scp to transfer a *whole* lot of dissertation data from a 
computer on my home LAN to a computer here at work.   I started the 
transfer at 9AM.  Here are some snapshots of the progress:

  kbytes     time      elapsed   (Kb/s)
--------  ----------  ------- ----------
  103360    11:51:45     10305    10.03
  144980    13:09:23     14963     9.69
  154340    13:26:06     15966     9.67
  359524    21:59:00     46740     7.69
  412700    00:20:48     55248     7.47

Did I calculate the throughput correctly?  So in terms of modem speeds, 
this would be a sustained throughput of 60 kilo-baud?  Which would be 
phenomenal if I had a modem but I have a cable modem at home and we have 
(only) a dedicated 128K ISDN line here at work.  Does a 128K ISDN translate 
to transferring about 16 Kb/s?  So I was getting about 63% of our maximum 
just before lunch and the average had dropped to only 48% towards the end 
of the transfer?  If traffic to/from my work network were the cause, I 
would expect the numbers to stay pretty constant during the day and then 
jump up at night.  Since the opposite seems to happen, can I conclude that 
there is a bottleneck on my cable network or in between?  Or is there 
anything about scp that would cause it to progressively slow during a long 
transfer?  The traffic at home passed through a Linux gateway; should 
masquerading using a Celron 400 with 128 MB RAM cause a lot of 
latency?  Should I be happy with these speeds?

Your thoughts, corrections, etc. are appreciated,

-Alan Mead

[amead@hera amead]$ traceroute www.yahoo.com
traceroute: Warning: www.yahoo.com has multiple addresses; using 216.32.74.52
traceroute to www.yahoo.akadns.net (216.32.74.52), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
  1  ipatrtr (64.5.73.1)  1.803 ms  1.843 ms  1.621 ms
  2  its-1.soltec.net (206.148.208.4)  379.762 ms  144.834 ms  30.339 ms
  3  gw.soltec.net (206.148.208.1)  30.347 ms  186.326 ms  191.611 ms
  4  * * 63.238.135.69 (63.238.135.69)  58.856 ms
  5  * chi-core-03.inet.qwest.net (205.171.20.153)  64.578 ms  333.373 ms
  6  chi-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (205.171.20.138)  53.553 ms  64.983 
ms  116.843 ms
  7  ibr02-p0-1.okbr01.exodus.net (205.171.4.50)  79.681 ms  60.430 
ms  83.002 ms
  8  * bbr01-g3-0.okbr01.exodus.net (216.34.183.65)  50.619 ms  60.761 ms
  9  bbr02-p6-0.jrcy01.exodus.net (216.32.132.110)  80.145 ms  645.017 ms *
10  bbr01-p5-0.stng01.exodus.net (209.185.9.98)  1141.746 ms  997.142 
ms  462.167 ms
11  dcr04-g9-0.stng01.exodus.net (216.33.96.146)  226.203 ms  142.618 
ms  69.571 ms
12  * 216.33.98.19 (216.33.98.19)  609.612 ms  874.789 ms
13  216.35.210.126 (216.35.210.126)  871.602 ms  600.034 ms  286.730 ms
14  www3.dcx.yahoo.com (216.32.74.52)  328.424 ms  96.569 ms  127.680 ms
[amead@hera amead]$ ping www.yahoo.com
PING www.yahoo.akadns.net (216.32.74.50) from 64.5.73.33 : 56(84) bytes of 
data.
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=0 ttl=242 time=2191.2 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=1 ttl=242 time=1659.6 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=2 ttl=242 time=674.5 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=3 ttl=242 time=1479.0 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=4 ttl=242 time=1654.7 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=5 ttl=242 time=1888.6 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=6 ttl=242 time=1673.6 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=7 ttl=242 time=1838.1 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=8 ttl=242 time=1470.3 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=9 ttl=242 time=1190.0 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=10 ttl=242 time=381.6 ms
64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=11 ttl=242 time=697.2 ms

 --- www.yahoo.akadns.net ping statistics ---
13 packets transmitted, 12 packets received, 7% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 381.6/1399.8/2191.2 ms

===

Subject: Re: [OT] network bandwidth
From: Jake McHenry <jmchenry@oak.kcsd.k12.pa.us>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:03:59 -0400 (EDT)

I always understood traceroute a different way, because of what your
seeing now. It sends out one message to the address you want to traceroute
to, then it goes back and get's the latency from you to each hop along the
way. Do you understand? 

(you) -------------------------------------------------> (other person)
(you) --> (hop 1)
(you) ----> (hop 2)
(you) ------> (hop 3)
(you) --------> (hop 4)
(you) ----------> (hop 5)
(you) ------------> (hop 6)
(you) --------------> (hop 7)
(you) ----------------> (hop 8)
(you) ------------------> (hop 9)
(you) --------------------> (hop 10)

....etc

Jake


===

Subject: Re: [OT] network bandwidth
From: "Leonard den Ottolander" <leonardjo@hetnet.nl>
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 04:20:22 +0200

Hi Alan,

 Just a few thoughts.

> Below is a 
> traceroute and ping to Yahoo.

> [amead@hera amead]$ traceroute www.yahoo.com
> traceroute: Warning: www.yahoo.com has multiple addresses; using
> 216.32.74.52
> traceroute to www.yahoo.akadns.net (216.32.74.52), 30 hops max, 38 byte
> packets
> 14  www3.dcx.yahoo.com (216.32.74.52)  328.424 ms  96.569 ms  127.680 ms

> [amead@hera amead]$ ping www.yahoo.com
> PING www.yahoo.akadns.net (216.32.74.50) from 64.5.73.33 : 56(84) bytes of 
> data.
> 64 bytes from 216.32.74.50: icmp_seq=0 ttl=242 time=2191.2 ms

 Maybe you didn't notice, these are two different servers.

> So:  (1) I obviously don't fully understand traceroute; These are round 
> trips between me and that node, right?  So how can latencies on successive 
> hops get bigger and smaller?

 Yes they are round trips to the different nodes. The different latencies must 
have to do with the availability of the servers. Your packets are forwarded at 
full(?) speed, but latency echoing the probe depends on the server load. 
Optimized for routing not for "pinging". Something like that.

>   kbytes     time      elapsed   (Kb/s)
> --------  ----------  ------- ----------
>   103360    11:51:45     10305    10.03
>   144980    13:09:23     14963     9.69
>   154340    13:26:06     15966     9.67
>   359524    21:59:00     46740     7.69
>   412700    00:20:48     55248     7.47
> 
> Did I calculate the throughput correctly?

 Well, if you mean KB/s, (bytes versus bits) I guess this is correct. If you 
calculate the throughput from 21:59 to 00:20 your result is even worse: 
(412700 - 359524)/(55248 - 46740) = 6.25 KB/s

> So in terms of modem speeds, 
> this would be a sustained throughput of 60 kilo-baud?

 Sorry if this sounds too picky, but that should be 60 kbps. Baud != bps.

> can I conclude that 
> there is a bottleneck on my cable network or in between?

>   1  ipatrtr (64.5.73.1)  1.803 ms  1.843 ms  1.621 ms

 Well, this router looks pretty busy, so I guess your LAN might have to do 
with it.

> The traffic at home passed through a Linux gateway; should 
> masquerading using a Celron 400 with 128 MB RAM cause a lot of 
> latency?  Should I be happy with these speeds?

 Well, the specs should be allright. You could do this with a 486/66. You 
might want to try setting the TOS flags, it seems this works for ftp (what's 
scp?). See the ipchains-HOWTO for details.

 I hope these comments are reassuring and of some help.

===



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