This is part of The Pile, a partial archive of some open source mailing lists and newsgroups.
Subject: Terminals, like in the 'good old days''. ;-) From: Gustav Schaffter <gustav@schaffter.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:59:57 +0200 Hi, I'm socializing with this idea of mine... Long time ago, I worked with mainframes only. Then with what we called 'mini-computers'. What was different was (among a few other things :) that you didn't have a *Personal* Computer on your desk. You shared the computer with other users. Now, having gone through the cycle of working/living with DOS, Win32 (fortunatley, I haven't yet seen Win00) and OS/2, I'm running Linux on most of my computers at home. Linux is (by definition) stable. Makes sense to keep it running. My wife is, let's say, not _enthusiastic_ about leaving the PCs running 24/7. Me and my kids would love it though, but since we are in minority (4) against my wife who is in majority (1), the PCs are all shutdown over night. (If you're married, you'll understand. If not, you'll have to wait until you see the light. ;-) My idea: (This is the 'good old days' part.) I'd like to leave all the PCs running in the basement. 24/7. And have only 'dumb terminals' in our sleeping rooms, living rooms, hallways and in the kitchen. (The bathroom?) Log in using any (free :) terminal and you're on the LAN. Maybe doing all the login on one dedicated PC having NFS mounted hard disks/CD/floppy etc. from other PCs. Maybe even some kind of load balancing cluster, all in the basement. No CPU, no harddisk and (*most* important) no ventilation fans making noise at the point of login. Except(!) one PC somewhere accessible where I would run two (four?) floppies, and a few CD-ROMs. One small boot disk only. Could someone enlighten me about what I would need to create the part titled 'dumb terminal' in this solution? Guess I'd need some monitors, keyboards and mice, but how do they communicate (over distance) with the PCs? Do I use some kind of modems? What kind of modems? Can I use ordinary PC equipment to do this? (Looking forward to have multiple video cards under XFree 4.0.) Can I serve multiple sound cards from a shared PC to dedicated 'login points'? Using a multiplexor in the living room to serve multiple monitor setups? Any hints, experiences and additional ideas (as always) much appreciated. Regards Gustav P.S. I now. I might find myself sleeping in the basement one day. But what wouldn't I do for my Linux boxes? :-) === Subject: RE: Terminals, like in the 'good old days''. ;-) From: "Scott Kindley" <scott@kindley.net> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:24:43 -0500 check out www.ltsp.org === Subject: Re: Terminals, like in the 'good old days''. ;-) From: Jacques Gelinas <jack@solucorp.qc.ca> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:16:40 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > > check out www.ltsp.org You can also check www.solucorp.qc.ca/xterminals and www.solucorp.qc.ca/virtualfs. the later provide a solution to access the floppy, cdrom and sound card on X terminal from the application server. === Subject: Re: Terminals, like in the 'good old days''. ;-) From: AlphaByte <abyte@alphabyte.co.nz> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:57:13 +1200 Corel had a Linux terminal setup called Sidewinder. Each terminal has a box connected over a LAN to a minicomputer running Linux. The company was spun off and called Corel Computer. They are now called Rebel.com at http://www.rebel.com and the product is now called Netwinder. === Subject: Idea's and a few resources (RE: Terminals, like in the 'good old days''. ;-)) From: "Scott Kindley" <scott@kindley.net> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:42:34 -0500 Only problem I run into with the Netwinder's are the cost 999.00 up to 1,995.00( I didnt locate a Sidewinder ). For what you are paying for one could buy/build a very nice PC and set it up to do the very same things this machine does. And these machines are not really X-Terminals.( http://shop.rebel.com/netwinder/pricing.cfm ) IBM has a product called the NetStation. They are including software to run Linux on these machines now ( http://service.boulder.ibm.com/nc/linux/linux.shtml ) which is nice but still the models reported to run Linux the 2200 or the 2800 series are IMHO overpriced 2800 starts at 899.00 while the 2200 starts at 679.00 ( 2800 = http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/CategoryDisplay?cgmenbr=1& c gnbr=Network+Station+Series+2800&cntry=840&lang=en_US ) ( 2200 = http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/CategoryDisplay?cgmenbr=1& c gnbr=Network+Station+Series+2200&cntry=840&lang=en_US ). The I-opener from Netpliance ( http://www.netpliance.com ) is a very attractive hardware setup. Many resources on the net can be found on hacking this to get Linux to run on it. They have the kind of hardware and price I think an X-Terminal or thin client should have, well maybe a larger screen size would be better, at 99.00. Problem is they have the machines setup to connect only to their ISP and don't really offer alternatives such as a Lan connection or ability to use your own ISP. I and many other would pay more to get the features we want. But for now ya gotta hack em. Perhaps the best idea I have found so far, which I have not pursued just yet is a bootable network card. I can slap it into any old small footprint box, set up a server and have a solution for a diskless X-terminal. Check out http://www.disklessworkstations.com/ where you can purchase very inexpensive bootable network cards. They also have premade diskless stations as well as servers. However, I still find thier preconfigured machines too expensive for what you get. Their prices on the Linksys bootable card IS very attractive though ( http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/cat/100003?NTf5MxIh;;25 ). In conjuction with the Linux Terminal Server Project this could be a nice solution ( http://www.ltsp.org ). I think with the proliferation of broadband internet access like xDSL and cable, along with a lot of families who would like multiple machines for family members, the "thin client" or "X-Terminal" can finally become more prominant outside of business uses. I even think business would benefit more from this too. For example, @Home offers ( in my area anyway ) up to three IP addresses. They also explain you can connect your cable to a hub or switch and do your own networking on their one cable connection at your home ( provided you don't run servers over their connection, check the terms of service to be sure ). Telocity offers DSL in my area ( as well as Covad and a couple others ) and I can see where either of these can make a family like mine happy by having the small lan in the house utilizing a "gateway/server" and a "Thin Client/X-Terminals" for the kids etc. But for me the magic number for cost is about $300.00 bucks per station. I would pay this for a setup similar to the I-opener. Ideally it would have: Small footprint, 10/100 Lan connectivity and ability to use ppp with included display ( like the I-openers display ), Linux for the OS. === Subject: Re: Terminals, like in the 'good old days''. ;-) From: Alan Mead <adm@ipat.com> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 08:45:40 -0500 Gustav, You've gotten a lot of replies about new hardware. I didn't see anyone come out and say it but I think that yes, you're going to need actual terminals (or some nifty box that turns a monitor+kbd+mouse into one). Then the issue of connection to the basement depends on the terminal. You may also need a multi-port serial card. I believe I've seen technologies for having a kbd and mouse distant but I don't know any way to deliver video except through a cable or maybe across a wireless ethernet (but that requires a computer on both ends). Anyway, if you get terminals, a single Linux server will do. I imagine old terminals are pretty much door stops these days and you can come by them cheap or free. The new ones that look PC-ish may be harder to come by cheaply. I also fondly recall the good old days when I was in college in the 80's and dumb terminals were my only access to the Internet and I favor the CLI even today. But I think I would feel constrained by being limited to using terminals. I would favor leaving a few Linux workstations around the living quarters and string ethernet down to a hub next to a server or two in the basement. The workstations can be powered up and down while the server runs 24/7. You could also look into ways of muffling the computers or soundproofing the bedroom. Or you could take up snoring. ===