suse_vs_redhat

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Subject: SuSe Linux Reviewed
From: Ray Dillinger <bear@sonic.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:10:41 -0700 (PDT)

I've been using RedHat for a couple years now, and I was 
happy with it.  I started with Debian, but -- while Debian 
has a lot of stuff, a lot of it wasn't very good and wasn't 
very well organized, at least at the time.  I was a linux 
newbie at the time, so I didn't really have the expertise 
that would have been required to get the most out of 
Debian.  So when I switched to RedHat, it was a move that 
made me happier.  I guess I never really got past the 
configuration headaches with Debian, but with RedHat I 
could get over the hump.

But recently, about the time redhat 6.1 came out, I had another 
box which I was adding to my home network (it's for development - 
I need 2 development boxes now that I'm doing network stuff) 
and I went off to the store in search of RH 6.1 intending to 
upgrade the two boxes I had already and install on the one I 
had just got. 

However, at circuit city they were *out* of Redhat 6.1, and 
someone handed me a box of SuSe linux 6.4. So I went "what 
the heck, I'll try another flavor...more platforms to test 
on can't hurt, let's see if I can make it work on RH *and* 
SuSe."  So at home, I set up the new box on SuSe and left 
the old ones on RedHat. 

I have to admit, I'm really impressed with it so far.  If you 
tell it you want to do network and development, SuSe installs 
with a HUGE array of network and development tools.  Its 
installer understands my hardware (well, most of it anyway -- 
I had to have an earnest conversation with Xconfig about my 
NEC multisync 3fgx monitor).  Picked up the sound and video 
cards without a blip, and configured them correctly.  Did 
the disk partitioning correctly, putting root, boot, and 
swap inside the 1024-cylinder barrier (which I had to convince 
the RedHat 6.0 installer to do by hand-partitioning my disk).

It also gave a really nice set of install options:  you can 
make decisions at high level (Install "almost everything", 
"average", or "minimal") or at a medium level (augment my 
"average" install with the source code and "almost everything" 
in the networking and development categories), or straight 
down to package-by-package level - with handy help messages 
and real-time warnings about package interactions and 
incompatibilities where appropriate.  

It installs half-a-dozen different desktop environments, and 
they are all correctly configured straight out of install (which 
compares with RedHat getting really flaky and rigid if I chose 
anything that wasn't Gnome).  Right now I'm using K and I 
really *really* like the K development environment that comes 
with it -- users of a certain $600 product by a company which 
shall remain nameless will feel right at home.  

Plus, there's just a huge amount of *STUFF*!!  SuSe comes on 
6 CD's, and it preinstalls every application under the sun 
if you tell it to.  With RedHat, you find yourself constantly 
going to the web to get this or that or the other thing.   But 
the SuSe box, if you have the disk space, installs with enough 
applications and toys to be a complete system within itself, 
and doesn't actually need the web to make sense.  It has actually 
become my new favorite workstation.

One thing I disliked about RedHat was the way it was constantly 
trying to dial my modem whenever I wanted to read the documentation 
on some things -- CD's are cheap, disk space is cheap, why didn't 
it just install all of the dang docs?  Haven't had that problem 
YET with the SuSe systems.

One thing that RedHat has on Suse is that the RH configuration 
of the networking software is maybe a little better.  Suse's is 
competent, but it's not performance tuned the way RH's is -- 
Of course, both distributions come with everything you need to 
set up a killer internet server, but there's a little less 
handtweaking necessary to get best performance out of RedHat. 

Anyway -- just wanted to say I'm *really* impressed.  I think 
I'm going to go on getting SuSe in the future. :-)  And yeah, I'd 
recommend it to a friend.

====

Subject: Re: SuSe Linux Reviewed
From: Deirdre Saoirse <deirdre@deirdre.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:52:33 -0700 (PDT)

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote:

> I have to admit, I'm really impressed with it so far.  If you tell it
> you want to do network and development, SuSe installs with a HUGE
> array of network and development tools.

SuSE is the "licenses? Collect the whole set!" distribution. I like it
myself.

> Anyway -- just wanted to say I'm *really* impressed.  I think I'm
> going to go on getting SuSe in the future. :-)  And yeah, I'd
> recommend it to a friend.

It's been my favorite since giving up on red hat a few years ago. That
said, I use RH at work and like it too.

(Btw, I'm one of the co-authors of _SuSE Linux Unleashed_ from Sams)

===

Subject: RE: SuSe Linux Reviewed
From: "Daevid Vincent" <DayWalker@TheMatrix.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:17:02 -0700

Anyway -- just wanted to say I'm *really* impressed.  I think
> I'm going to go on getting SuSe in the future. :-)  And yeah, I'd
> recommend it to a friend.

Does SuSe use RPM packages -- the same ones that RH uses, hence if I go to a
site and they only show the RH RPM or Debian, will the RH package work?

How different is the directory structure from a RH install?

How easy is it to upgrade an existing SuSe system to the 'next version' when
it comes out?

Can I _upgrade_ my RH6.2 server to SuSe, or do I need to install from
scratch?

Does it have something simmilar to "autorpm", to automatically get upgrades
and patches?

How secure is it compared to RH or other distros for a real server (apache,
mysql, mail, ftp)?

Does it come with any encryption (SSL or SSH) stuff?

===

Subject: RE: SuSe Linux Reviewed
From: Ray Dillinger <bear@sonic.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:00:15 -0700 (PDT)

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Daevid Vincent wrote:

>> Anyway -- just wanted to say I'm *really* impressed.  I think
>> I'm going to go on getting SuSe in the future. :-)  And yeah, I'd
>> recommend it to a friend.
>
>Does SuSe use RPM packages -- the same ones that RH uses, hence if I go to a
>site and they only show the RH RPM or Debian, will the RH package work?

Yes, they use RPM packages and the RPM software.

>How different is the directory structure from a RH install?

No substantial differences, at least not that I've noticed. 
Everything seems to be in the same place. 

>How easy is it to upgrade an existing SuSe system to the 'next version' when
>it comes out?

Dunno, I haven't yet.  I did see the option on the installer 
to perform an upgrade, but so far I haven't had occasion to use 
it. 

>Can I _upgrade_ my RH6.2 server to SuSe, or do I need to install from
>scratch?

My impression is that the installer doesn't recognize other 
distributions - I could be wrong about that, I haven't had 
occasion to "convert" a machine yet.  I do know that when I 
tried to include the standard kernel sources (the same ones redhat 
uses are distributed with SuSE) I got a warning about a possible 
conflict with SuSE kernel sources, which apparently have some 
patches etc from the standard edition.  I haven't yet investigated 
the differences, but I have noticed that file and disk access 
seems smoother.  

>Does it have something simmilar to "autorpm", to automatically get upgrades
>and patches?

Yes.

>How secure is it compared to RH or other distros for a real server (apache,
>mysql, mail, ftp)?

There is an RPM that comes with it called "Hard-SuSE" which  is described 
as "Enhances security by disabling unnecessary internet services and 
reconfiguring some others."  I mention this to be fair - as far as I know 
it is quite secure with this package installed. 

But I chose not to install it until someone convinces me that it agrees 
with me about what is unnecessary and what reconfiguration should be 
done, so I am hardening my system "by hand", one configuration at a 
time. In the default installations I've seen so far, there are several 
things that I find questionable from a security POV.  

Perhaps the most egregious I've seen so far is their setup of Apache.  
There is lots of documentation in the server directory, including some 
files that give information useful to attackers (telling all about the 
install directory structures, security measures, and the (rather weak)
cryptographic algorithm securing /etc/password for example, as well as
usage stats and other valuable information from the cgi-bin directory).  
It's not configured to limit that to local-viewing only - instead it 
relies on a "robots.txt" file to try to make it invisible to the outside 
world. 

Can you fix it? Yes. Is it something that could help a cracker if 
you don't remember to? Yes.  *sigh.*  

But, really, I haven't seen *MAJOR* holes - the network stuff is 
all done with competence, if sometimes without excellence.

>Does it come with any encryption (SSL or SSH) stuff?

:-)  Yes.  One of the things I'm considering with it is an 
"email for paranoids" server -- providing anonymous eddresses 
which accept encrypted email only. It has all the necessary 
parts, but putting something like that together in a secure 
way is going to be a major challenge. 

====



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