This is part of The Pile, a partial archive of some open source mailing lists and newsgroups.
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:40:36 -0800 From: Marc MERLIN <marc_news@vasoftware.com> To: J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu>, William R Ward <bill@wards.net> Cc: Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com>, svlug@svlug.org Subject: Re: [svlug] About mc On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:21:56PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:59:35 -0800 > Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com> wrote: > > > IMO mc (text version) is the best file manager ever. > > Inserts standard grumble about horrible keybindings and lack of key > binding configurability. I'd really go for something equivalent to > Vern Buerg's LIST. We already went through this once. This is entirely incorrect, all the keys are reconfigurable, and while I haven't looked at LIST, I already know that it can't do the most useful functions that mc has (VFS, undelete fs, etc) On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:14:04PM -0800, William R Ward wrote: > Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com> writes: > > IMO mc (text version) is the best file manager ever. Nautilus is good > > to show off when ms user is around but mc has all the required > > functionality, it's fast, easy to use etc... (that's, of course, IMO, I > > have tried quite a few filemanagers but not all of them and my > > requirements might be different from those of other people). > > There's a TEXT VERSION?? Why didn't anyone mention that earlier? Sorry, I thought you knew :-) Yes, I've been using mc since version 1.x, back in 94 or so, and of course everything was text, and still is now. While I use mc in text all day long, I've never used the graphical version more than 2 minutes. === Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:23:13 -0800 From: J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:40:36 -0800 Marc MERLIN <marc_news@vasoftware.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 04:21:56PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:59:35 -0800 Erik Steffl >> <steffl@bigfoot.com> wrote: >> Inserts standard grumble about horrible keybindings and lack of >> key binding configurability. I'd really go for something >> equivalent to Vern Buerg's LIST. > We already went through this once. This is entirely incorrect, all > the keys are reconfigurable, and while I haven't looked at LIST, I > already know that it can't do the most useful functions that mc > has (VFS, undelete fs, etc) Not quite. While mc does have some keyboard rebinding as we went over the last time round, it doesn't support keyborad binding to the extent I want (rebinding alpha keys). As for the VFS etc bits, I don't have a particular need/wish for those features. === To: Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com> Cc: svlug@svlug.org Subject: Re: [svlug] About mc Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:58:17 -0800 From: J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:07:06 -0800 Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com> wrote: > I just checked LIST and it seems quite ugly, giving me the > straight jacket feel (no command line, didn't even find how to > configure it, copy expects me to type in the path? alt-tab doesn't > work, in-program documentation miserable (one help screen)). Why > would you want anything like that? (honest question, not really > comparing it to mc) Loosely what I want is single pane, single directory view with the ability to interactively (in the move the cursor about and hit command keys sense) copy, move, rename, etc files with a very fast large file viewer that doesn't insist on loading them into memory. If the command keys are letter based (c=copy, d=delete, m-move, r=rename, etc I'm fine and configurability is not needed. I don't want to launch editors, run scripts, or handle spiffy regxes -- just text mode point, select, and shoot. Not particularly interested in an internal command line. Don't want help. Copy destination can be typed in, or can be walked to and then copy invoked. Can't think of any reason I'd be interested in ALT-TAB. The emphasis is on speed and simplicity. One of the things I really miss is an equivalent to 4DOS/4OS2's "select" command. === Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 02:57:42 -0800 From: Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com> To: svlug@svlug.org Subject: Re: [svlug] About mc J C Lawrence wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:07:06 -0800 > Erik Steffl <steffl@bigfoot.com> wrote: > > > I just checked LIST and it seems quite ugly, giving me the > > straight jacket feel (no command line, didn't even find how to > > configure it, copy expects me to type in the path? alt-tab doesn't > > work, in-program documentation miserable (one help screen)). Why > > would you want anything like that? (honest question, not really > > comparing it to mc) > > Loosely what I want is single pane, single directory view with the > ability to interactively (in the move the cursor about and hit mc can be configured in various ways, incuding single pane (you can quickly change the views). you just move the cursor, enter to run the program (if not executable you can define what to do with file), it's fairly intuitive, no unnecessary fancy stuff (you can turn off status line etc.) > command keys sense) copy, move, rename, etc files with a very fast > large file viewer that doesn't insist on loading them into memory. you can use any file viewer you want with mc, even base it on file type... same for editor... its internal viewer is fairly OK (not sure if it loads whole file into memory, for large files I usually fire gvim which offers better navigation (searching, marks etc)). I just tried to open 22MB file (kernel bz2) and it opened it in lot less then 1 second, so I am pretty sure it does not load the whole file into memory, at least not in the beginning. > If the command keys are letter based (c=copy, d=delete, m-move, > r=rename, etc I'm fine and configurability is not needed. I don't let's face it - c=copy, r=rename is for beginners, once you learn the keys it does not matter which keys you use (the layout of the keys is mnore important than whether it's c for copy). It is kinda arrogant from a program to not let you assign any keybindings but IMO it's not serious usability problem. > want to launch editors, run scripts, or handle spiffy regxes -- just why not editors? isn't editing files fairly common task performed on files? > text mode point, select, and shoot. Not particularly interested in > an internal command line. Don't want help. Copy destination can be aren't you using command line? why would you go to different window to have command line available? doesn't make sense - you'd have to cd again even though you are right in the directory you want to be in in mc... help: how do you know how to use it then? not everything can be self-evident. on modern desktop machines there is no excuse for programs not to have context sensitive help. > typed in, or can be walked to and then copy invoked. Can't think of that doesn't sound appealing at all. can't imagine doing e.g. reorganization of mp3 files that way... > any reason I'd be interested in ALT-TAB. I was talking about LIST - I tried it under win nt 4.x and for some reason when it was active I couldn't switch to other programs using alt-tab (which is THE program switching key in windows). quite annoying. you are right that you probably wouldn't be interested in alt-tab (on linux)... > The emphasis is on speed and simplicity. One of the things I really > miss is an equivalent to 4DOS/4OS2's "select" command. never heard of it so I can't comment... but how do you work with compressed/tar-ed files? IMO being able to just hit enter and have the VFS show the files inside, including ability to view the files is quite handy. Plus you untar by simply copying the files from tar file to destination directory (and it works with various formats, you don't have to think about which type of compression to use etc.) never wanted to find files and then do something interactive with them? VFS is your friend again (of course, for non-interactive use find|xargs or similar is better)? ftp can be a VFS as well - that way you can view the files by hitting one key (just like local files), copy files (just like from/to local disks) etc... also considering that for lot of tasks shell is better then file manager it is very convenient that you can just ctrol-o and have the panels disappear - no need to switch context (and cd to a directory again in different xterm) etc... I am kinda surprised by your negative attitude towards mc - from what you say you need IMO mc is the best match. LIST doesn't compare (for both beginner and power user). ===