svlug-ssl_vs_ssh

This is part of The Pile, a partial archive of some open source mailing lists and newsgroups.




Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:27:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Akbar Ahmed <akbar_svlug@yahoo.com>
To: svlug@lists.svlug.org
Subject: [svlug]  SSL vs. SSH

Hi,

I've been reading up a bit on SSL and SSH for use in
writing client/server apps that need encrypted
communication.

What are the benefits/drawbacks of using ssh over ssl,
or vice versa, when writing client/server apps?

When is SSL the better option?
When is SSH the better option?

I've noted the following differences:
-SSL supports anonymous connections
-SSL uses certs, while SSH uses keys (or passwords)
-SSH offers more authentication mechanisms

It seems to me that SSH is a more attractive option
for encryped communication between a client and server
due to its relative flexiblity, but I may be missing
something.

===
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 03:09:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Hajime Lanning <lanning@lanning.cc>
To: akbar_svlug@yahoo.com (Akbar Ahmed)
Cc: svlug@lists.svlug.org
Subject: Re: [svlug]  SSL vs. SSH

This all realy depends on your application.

As you mentioned ssh requires an account on the destination machine.  It
also requires access to execute the server side of the program.

Is the server suposed to be running at all times and receives multiple
connections from the clients or is it something that can run out of inetd?
(Gets an individual invocation for each connection.)

SSH is realy for the secure execution of commands on a remote machine.  SSH
also requires that the keys be pre-setup with the account (or you can type
a password in every time.)  (Are they clients authenticating to the server
program or to the unix account?)  If the server is to be invoked for each
client connection, then SSH will work.  SSH uses with STDIN STDOUT and STDERR.
So, in scripts, it is hard to make one program write to and read from SSH.
(It can be done, just looks ugly, messing with the file descriptors.)
Now, if you are talking the SSH protocol, it can be a bit different.  Though,
I am not sure you need all the complexities that the SSH protocol has.  It
actualy has multiple channel capabilities, so you can pass (for example) 20
seperate streams of data across the same connection.  (Used for the port
forwarding feature.)

SSL is realy a library to enable you to make an encrypted TCP connection
with a server program.  With the SSL/TLS library you can open a TCP connection
with your server and do any type of authentication ontop of the encrypted
channel it gives you.  Once the channel is up you can handle it as if it
was a standard TCP socket (pretty much.)  One server daemon can have hundreds
of clients connected via SSL/TLS sockets.

===

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:18:59 +0300 (IDT)
From: Ira Abramov <lists-svlug@ira.abramov.org>
Cc: SV GNU/Linux <svlug@lists.svlug.org>
Subject: Re: [svlug]  SSL vs. SSH

Akbar Ahmed wrote:

> What are the benefits/drawbacks of using ssh over ssl,
> or vice versa, when writing client/server apps?
>
> When is SSL the better option?
> When is SSH the better option?

well, it's not really two apps competing in the same category, as Rob
put it. encryption can be used for privacy or for authentication and
trust. SSL is standard for encrypting a single TCP socket connection,
while optionally authenticating the server's identity by having a
recocgnixed CA sign his certificate (which in turn includes his host
key). Uses are in web, mail, and even telnet. as Rob said - an SSL
connection is just a socket, more or less. It is for privacy and trust,
while SSH is for privacy and authentication (though it can do trust too
if you insist)

Now take the SSL-telnet idea one step forward, slap on it chalange/reply
handshaking, slap on top of that TCP tunneling and multiplexing,
r-commands and a few other features, remove the need for a CA, and you
have a very powerful tool indeed, but - not an ubiqitous as SSL (i.e. no
plugs in mail or web clients, nor language libraries (though I may be
wrong).

SSL on the other hand, has caught on for pop3, imap, smtp, http, ftp,
telnet and countless individual uses because of easy-to-use tools such
as ssltunnel, and libraries any language can easely link to (Java,
Python, C etc) and use it as a standard socket. the way I see it, SSH
will stick to the stuff it does best - a commendline pipe for shell
scripting, remote command execution, interactive secure sessions and
firewall piercing games :)

Hope that helped..

===

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:39:27 -0700
From: J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu>
To: "Matt Billenstein" <matt@vazor.com>
Cc: svlug@lists.svlug.org
Subject: Re: [svlug] sendmail question 

Matt Billenstein <matt@vazor.com> wrote:

> How might I redirect email to unknown users to an existing user
> account?  I've looked on Google for a bit, but can't seem to find
> anything that works.

luser_relay under Postfix.

===

Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:42:21 -0700
From: J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu>
To: Akbar Ahmed <akbar_svlug@yahoo.com>
Cc: svlug@lists.svlug.org
Subject: Re: [svlug] SSL vs. SSH 

Akbar Ahmed <akbar_svlug@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What are the benefits/drawbacks of using ssh over ssl, or vice versa,
> when writing client/server apps?

SSL (can) plug into your PKI and CA structure, and in the form known as
TLS, is already an acknowledged and widely deployed transport crypto (eg
SMTP, HTTPS, etc).

SSH comparatively is poorly supported or even known outside of the
Unixes.

===

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