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JEFFERSONS_SLAVES


                                             December 13, 2021

The show "Hamilton", as you may have
heard, is pretty brilliant-- like most
everyone else, I liked the song "The Room
Where It Happens", which is not such an     But then it could be that my opinion
easy thing to write a song about... but     was corrupted by the propaganda of
for me at least, the hero-worship of        the free-market libertarians, for
Alexander Hamilton was a bit much.          whom Jefferson was a proponent of
                                            freedom and Hamilton leaned too far
A little cursory reading on the             in the direction of centralized
subject reveals Lin-Manuel Miranda          authority.
did indeed simplify some things,
e.g. he played up the fact that                A more common take these days is
Jefferson was a slave-owner, but               that decentralization aka "states
doesn't mention the fact that                  rights" has, where the US is
Washington was also:                           concerned, always meant keeping
                                               the slave states safe for white
The story does not break down neatly           supremacy.
along these lines into two factions.


   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_slavery
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery

                                                https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/rd8zoe/no_one_in_their_right_mind_would_design_a/ho01jlp/
Some points in the direction
of a more even-handed view of           I've covered some
Jefferson:                              of this already;

  Jefferson became a slave-owner by           MOVING_TARGET
  being born in a slave-owning
  family... myself I would give him
  credit for being able to realize
  there was something wrong with
  slavery and to start looking for
  ways to end the practice.

  He advocated ideas like having the children of
  slaves emancipated and raised as free citizens.

  Now, the fact that a number of his children were
  slaves no doubt encouraged him to think in this
  direction, but nevertheless, this strikes me in
  a somewhat positive light: he was groping for a
  way to end the institution without something as
  traumatic as a civil war--

  I might give him credit for being clever
  and creative, if not precisely moral by      But then, I don't know how
  present day standards.                       much of this Jefferson worked
                                               out by himself--
  In general I don't think much of the
  attitude that every historical figure            The AntiChr1st of
  should be held to present-day standards...       reddit makes the
                                                   point that this
    Consider that someone trying                   gradualist approach
    to fix modern day inequities                   is something like
    using techniques like John                     what the British did.
    Brown's would be accused of          
    being a crazy terrorist.                       Britain first ended
                                                   imports to and stopped
                                                   the creation of new
                                                   slaves, then did a
                                                   buy-out of the remaining
                                                   slaves after the numbers
                                                   were low enough.

                                                     "People tend to forget
                                                     that large scale
                                                     societal changes are
                                                     actually quite
                                                     difficult, especially
                                                     when it involves
                                                     massive changes to the
                                                     economy particularly in
                                                     the production of
                                                     goods. You typically
                                                     will want to do things
                                                     in steps if you can"

                                              StThoughtWheelz of reddit added:

                                              "Many believed in emancipation
                                              through manumission not
                                              abolition, and believed that
                                              was going to be enough."


I got into an extended exhange with a
"chrisq823", who wanted none of my wimpy
attempts at balanced understanding:

    chrisq823 of reddit:

    "People at the time knew slavery was wrong and were
    making the same exact cases for it being wrong as we
    do today and someone as educated as jefferson would
    be aware of that. Stop assuming they didn't know
    better. They chose not to do anything about."

    "Thomas Jefferson regularly raped his slaves and sold
    the resulting children into slavery. Anyone who
    perpetuated slavery in any way at any time I'd a
    complete piece of shit."


                        Now chrisq823, was not alone, for example:

                                Saelune of reddit:

                                "I think everyone absolutely should be held
                                by modern morals. Hell, even modern morals
                                suck. Slavery was wrong, always. It is wrong
                                in 2021, it was wrong in 1859, it was wrong
                                in 1776, and it was wrong in 200BC."

                                    I commented:

                                        I would be happy if we could
                                        manage to hold modern people
                                        to modern morals.

chrisq823 wrote:

    "People at the time knew slavery was wrong and
    were making the same exact cases for it being
    wrong as we do today"

        Yes, Jefferson wasn't alone. But many people with
        his background never even got as far as he did on
        the issue (advocating a gradual end to the
        practice).

    "They chose not to do anything about."

        As president, Jefferson banned the international
        slave trade.

        Concerning his personal life, I don't think he did
        as much as he could have... e.g. he had some idea of
        freeing his slaves on his death, but I gather his
        financial management was too incompetent.

    "Thomas Jefferson regularly raped his slaves"

        The one we know about is Sally Hemings. You might
        get in the habit of, you know, saying her name.

        And you will be shocked to hear I have some
        reservations about the word "rape". I can see why
        you would call it rape (power imbalance, consent
        not possible), but it seems to me that we don't
        actually know how Sally Hemings felt about it,
        because the central evil here is that her feelings
        didn't matter.

        And if you want to tell me her feelings continue
        to not matter, I'm going to ask you to justify
        that stance.

    "and sold the resulting children into slavery."

        According to Wikipedia: "Jefferson allowed two of
        Sally Hemings's surviving four children to 'escape';
        the other two he freed through his will."

     "Anyone who perpetuated slavery in any way at any
     time I'd a complete piece of shit."

        And what have you done to counter racism in America
        lately? If you're not a complete, balls-to-the-wall
        revolutionary, I hope you don't expect history to
        look kindly on you for just winning the wokester 
        olympics on the internet.

        You might try reading something, anything, about
        the subject.






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