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CALISTHENICS
October 31, 2013
November 1-3, 2013
GORGIAS
I gather that what people really like
in Plato's Gorias is the character of
Callicles, who plays the role of a
tough-minded man-of-action, who tells Everyone always likes
Socrates that philosophy is bunk, and the villains.
really it's a grab-what-you-can-get
world where the superior rule the VILLAINY
inferior.
BREAKING_BADNESS
Callicles barely says a word until
about half-way through the dialog.
Earlier he was apparently As Benjamin Jowett puts it in the
engaging in some polite translators introduction (which
dissimulation, but then suddenly includes the usual blow-by-blow):
he enters the fray: gloves off,
fangs bared, metaphoric "Here Callicles, who has been
cliches unleashed, he attacks. listening in silent amazement..."
Actually, a real Callicles would What sets him off is a
probably not bother to do more particularly ridiculous
than roll his eyes, and make fun love-thy-enemies passage
of Socrates behind his back when from Socrates, where
chatting with the other members Socrates insists that
of the Strong Man club: you should strive to
save your enemies from
SOCRATES: There is a noble freedom, the consequences of their
Callicles, in your way of approaching crimes.
the argument; for what you say is
what the rest of the world think, but
do not like to say.
The real reason Callicles is
popular with philosphers:
"... for philosophy, Socrates, if
pursued in moderation and at the proper
age, is an elegant accomplishment, but
too much philosophy is the ruin of human
life. ... "
"Philosophy, as a part of education, is
an excellent thing, and there is no This reminds me of one of the
disgrace to a man while he is young in guardians of virtue of the
pursuing such a study; but when he is graduate program in Materials
more advanced in years, the thing Science at Stanford, who
becomes ridiculous, and I feel towards thought I was wasting too
philosophers as I do towards those who much time on undergraduate
lisp and imitate children." classes-- like a "Values
Technology and Society"
seminar with John McCarthy.
(Dude: I hung out in a room
with jmc, one of the legends
of Computer Science and a
key architect of the modern era.
Callicles says things like: This was not a waste of time.)
" ... [the] possessions of the weaker
and inferior properly belong to the
stronger and superior."
Socrates makes some good moves:
he gently questions what This is much like the
"superior" might possibly mean criticism of the
in this case, e.g. pointing out Darwinian "survival of
that it's not literally the fittest" idea:
"stronger", because his slaves How do you know what's
(and thus inferiors) may be "fit"? Well you don't,
physically stronger. you have to wait to see
what survives. So this
is circular, isn't it?
That which survives,
survives.
SOCRATES: ... you say, do you not, that in
the rightly-developed man the passions ought
not to be controlled, but that we should let
them grow to the utmost and somehow or other
satisfy them, and that this is virtue?
CALLICLES: Yes; I do.
SOCRATES: Then those who want nothing are not
truly said to be happy?
CALLICLES: No indeed, for then stones and dead
men would be the happiest of all.
In following that line, Socrates
makes what looks like a leap in
logical categories-- it's good to But that's the point that
be able to scratch an itch, but Socrates was trying to raise:
still better not to be itchy. he suggests that "he who says
without any qualification
Is every need a malady then? that all who feel pleasure in
whatever manner are happy" is
One might suggest that even a a problem because it "admits
need for orderly temperance of no distinction between
might be a malady. good and bad pleasures".
Eventually Callicles interjects:
This dialog drones on
forever, and I'm entirely But do you really
in sympathy with Callicles suppose that I or any
impatience with Socrates, other human being
who seems completely denies that some
unwilling to just get to pleasures are good
the point. and others bad?
Callicles reiterates his position:
"I plainly assert, that he who
would truly live ought to allow
his desires to wax to the
uttermost, and not to chastise
them; but when they have grown
to their greatest he should have
courage and intelligence to
minister to them and to satisfy
all his longings. And this I There is indeed a problem
affirm to be natural justice and with confusions here:
nobility. To this however the
many cannot attain; and they desires
blame the strong man because needs
they are ashamed of their own pleasures
weakness, which they desire to ambition?
conceal, and hence they say that
intemperance is base."
It doesn't seem to me that
Socrates succeeds very well in
clarifying any of this.
He strikes a pose much like a
Christian martyr, ready to die
for his faith, but he does not
at all persuade that the world
is better off for him striking
this pose, or that any of us
should follow his example.
He speaks much like a true
believer in divine providence:
the bad will never profit at
the expense of the good, the
good will never lose anything
of significance, since the
worst that can happen is that
they'll die.
He makes a number of vauge
metaphorical arguments that
sound like "you need to be
true to yourself", or perhaps
"what shall it profit a man...".
At one point Socrates goes
off on a long, irritating
exposition-- one has much
sympathy for Callicles
complaints about it-- where
the point Socrates seems to
want to make is that if
pleasure is the cessation of
pain, and pleasure is good,
then it would seem that pain
is a necessary evil.
Or something like that.
Maybe I'm trying too
hard to project something (Socrates speaking in favor
comprehensible on the babble. of temperance is slightly
less annoying than Kerouac
making excuses for being a
drunk, but only slightly.)
SUBTERRA
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