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DENSE_ARGUMENTS
September 10, 2019
November 8, 2021
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/d2677a/cbs_news_poll_warren_overtakes_biden/ezuct2p/?context=3
citrus_slinger commented at reddit:
"... zoning and permit fees are artificially
deflating housing construction which leads
to a rise in housing costs."
I would guess that's a real effect, but the greek chorus you've
called forth is bugging me, so let me hit y'all with a bunch of
points that complicate this situation for me:
(1) The people who complain about zoning rules in the SF Bay Area
invariably point the finger at San Francisco, which is
already one of the higher density places. If low density is
the great evil, why aren't people pointing the finger at
places down in the Valley that are stuck on the suburban
dream like Mountain View?
If places like Mountain View made up their minds to
be real cities, that could take some of the heat off
of San Francisco.
(2) Going by rents and tourist activity, it would seem that the
older, higher density cities built before WWII are very
popular: how do you conclude from that that this means
they're in broken and need to be fixed? My conclusion would
be that this means we should leave them as they are, and try
to build more of them.
(3) One of the reasons people object to new construction is
pretty simple: it's going to suck. Western culture seems to
have lost the ability to build anything worthwhile after
WWII. I point the finger at the culture of the housing
developers, myself: they have no pride of craft and do the
absolute bare minimum they can get away with.
They've never seen a rule that they like, and they're
constantly whining about the great impositions on them that
make it so haaard for them to build cheap garbage they can
unload at top dollar in a place with a trendy name.
(4) Econ 101 no doubt has some valuable insights to offer, but
it's not the last word on anything: there are people who
sneer at the left for denying "the law of supply and demand"
as though it's thermodynamics, but consider that:
o supply and demand curves have slopes and
positions that vary for reasons not captured ECON101
in the basic theory
o you can get slopes that go the "wrong way"--
a classic example is a positively sloped demand curve
for high-end perfumes
o you really do need empirical data, not just theory--
e.g. that the data shows that raising the minimum wage
really does not create unemployment.
o Further: supply and demand of *what*? Suburbanites are
convinced that
Housing, okay, but why just housing restricting housing
in San Francisco? Why not the Bay construction is a
Area as a whole? Or the United States? rational way of
propping up the value
of their own property.
"Supply and demand",
thenuge26 wrote: right?
"It's been studied in the real world for As we all know, places
decades, and has never achieved it's stated with higher housing
goal of lowering rents. Ever." density have lower
property values--
What people really want from rent control is just look at San
to slow down the rate of change. Francisco...
It certainly reduces the rents
for the people who get rent If it seems unfair rent control is
controlled places. Those people-- unevenly applied, maybe it should be
and other people, who don't want to evenly, and not just targeting a set
see them forced to move by the of older apartments.
owner raking in a windfall-- are
the ones who vote for it. Typically there are exemptions for
new housing to avoid creating a
I have seen some data showing that discencentive for construction.
zoning regulations tend to drive
prices up somewhat-- but "lowering But if the usual suspects
rents" has never been a stated refused to build, the city could
goal of zoning regulations, where simply get in the development
the idea is more obviously business themselves, and cut out
"preservation of character". the private developers.
The obsession with prices as the If it's so difficult to find
only measure of value is another the right set of tweaks to
version of Econ-101ism. modify a market to get it to
do what we want it to in a
particular area, then maybe
we should stop using them so
much.
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