[PREV - THE_STORY_OF_STORIES]    [TOP]

DOUBLE_BACKFIRE


                                             November 11, 2018


   From  THE_STORY_OF_STORIES

   The "backfire effect" is well-known
   at this point-- facts don't persuade
   they just make people dig-in--
   what's less well-known is the
   original discoverers have backed
   off from this, and found some          From the dailykos, January 08, 2018:
   evidence that stating the facts is
   a decent persuasive technique.         "Even the frequently-cited original
                                          findings were relatively marginal--
                                          there was a signal, but not a big
                                          one. It was worth taking the backfire
                                          effect into account, but it wasn't
                                          near as big a deal as complaints about
                                          Snopes debunkings might have made it
                                          seem."

                                          https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/8/1730754/-Has-the-Backfire-Effect-of-Debunkings-Been-Debunked



Daniel Engber, in Slate, on Jan 3, 2018:
https://slate.com/health-and-science/2018/01/weve-been-told-were-living-in-a-post-truth-age-dont-believe-it.html

   "With an election looming in the fall of 2008,
   Nyhan and Reifler's work went viral in the
   media. (The final version of their paper would not
   be published in an academic journal until 2010.)
   Vedantam wrote up their findings for the Post, and
   the story spread from there. It soon became the
   go-to explanation for partisan
   recalcitrance. 'Perception is reality. Facts don't
   matter,' wrote Jonathan Chait in the New Republic ..."

   "But there's a problem with these stories about the
   end of facts. In the past few years, social
   scientists armed with better research methods have
   been revisiting some classic work on the science
   of post-truth. Based on their results, the most
   surprising and important revelations from this
   research ... now seem overstated. It may be that
   the internet does not divide us, that facts don't
   make us dumber than we were before, and that
   debunking doesn't really lead to further bunk."

   "In fact, it may be time that we gave up on the truth-y
   notion that we're living in a post-truth age. In fact,
   it may be time that we debunked the whole idea."

   "... The people in the study did give a bit more
   credence to corrections that fit with their
   beliefs; in those situations, the new information
   led them to update their positions more
   emphatically. But they never showed the effect
   that made the Nyhan-Reifler paper famous: People's
   views did not appear to boomerang against the
   facts. Among the topics tested in the new
   research-- including whether Saddam had been hiding
   WMDs-- not one produced a backfire. 'We were mugged
   by the evidence,' says Wood."

   "... I asked Coppock: Might there be echo chambers
   in academia, where scholars keep themselves away
   from new ideas about the echo chamber? And what if
   presenting evidence against the backfire effect
   itself produced a sort of backfire? 'I really do
   believe my finding,' Coppock said. 'I think other
   people believe me, too.' But if his findings were
   correct, then wouldn't all those peer reviewers
   have updated their beliefs in support of his
   conclusion? He paused for a moment. 'In a way,' he
   said, 'the best evidence *against* our paper is
   that it keeps getting rejected.'"



And indeed, it does seem that there are a lot of
people out there who seem weirdly reluctant to
get the word on this:


  George Gantz, Sept 9, 2018
  https://peacenews.org/2018/09/20/denialism-and-its-discontents-george-gantz/

  "One thing is clear. Conventional debunking
  does not work. The confrontation is actually
  counterproductive in the face of denialist
  thinking.  It just feeds the cycle."              Yes, the terrible cycle
                                                    of non-violent conflict.
                                                    Forget that crap.
Some people seem to be in                           Hulk smash.
love with the Brendan-Nyhan
"Backfire Effect"-- and
the idea of a "post-truth"
world.

You'd almost think they've
seized on it because it
justifies a deeply held          Note though, that here I'm playing at "going
prior belief or something        meta", reaching for the accusation that the
like that...                     people commenting on motivated reasoning are
                                 themselves engaging in it.

                                 A quick look around shows that there's
                                 nothing particularly brilliant about this
                                 move, it's a kind of cleverness everyone
                                 comes up with.

                                      It's everyone's first impulse, and it's
                                      practically the only thing the research
                                      in "motivated reasoning" has actually
                                      achieved: there's no need to resort to
                                      old-fashioned colloquialisms like
                                      calling someone "pig-headed", now you
                                      can go for psycho-babble about
                                      "motivated reasoning", and "social
                                      cognitive" and what-not.


      Daniel Engber again:

      "Why, then, has the end-of-facts idea
      gained so much purchase in both
      academia and the public mind?  It
      could be an example of what the World     But is this confirming our
      War II-- era misinformation experts       "deepest fears", or is there
      referred to as a 'bogie' rumor-- a        something reassuring about the
      false belief that gives expression to     idea that you don't need to do
      our deepest fears and offers some         any research because it won't
      catharsis.""                              help anyway?

           Engber links to:
           [link]



--------
[NEXT - LOSING_LOSS_AVERSION]